And, did you notice the accident in front of Terra Centre at about 4 - 5 pm?? A car was facing the wrong way and into the grass and trees!

"The statistics elicited a gasp of shock from those present at the meeting." Well, what do you expect from a mob of 50 single-issue activists, politicians and pointy-headed community organizers? We are shocked -- shocked! -- that so many motorists drive above the speed limit in Fairfax County! Oh please. Get a life, people, and let us use Burke Centre Parkway for its intended purpose -- driving! -- without having to navigate an obstacle course of speed traps, crosswalks and bike lanes. Good grief.

There was indeed an accident on BCP around 4PM on the day of the meeting. Yes, people drive too fast on the Parkway, and even if you don't think it's shocking that they do, it still doesn't make it okay. There are crosswalks on BCP, and pedestrians should be able to cross safely. If drivers are traveling 60MPH, then crossing that road on foot is decidedly unsafe. We just want our community to be safe and accessible for ALL users, not just those in cars.

We're not single issue zealots. We're just moms and dads who want the best for our children. No more and no less.

I get tired of the idea that it's not safe to cross Burke Center Parkway. I have lived here my whole life and have been doing so since I was about six with my parents and by myself since I was about 12 it can be done and done safely. The main issue I see most of the time is pedestrians who either don't want to walk a little farther to use a cross walk as there are quite a few including two within site of Terra Center or people who don't bother to wait for the follow of traffic to ease. Like it or not Burke Center Parkway has become a petty significant roadway 40 MPH for a 4 lane road is reasonable and lowering it will not slow people down but will only increase the number of tickets. Also consider the location tat most of those tickets were likely issue. I am sure that most of them came from the area of Lake Barton where the cops sit all the time. It's down hill which means that unless you ride your brakes you pic up speed for that short distance before you go back uphill meaning it's likely that many of those ticket were for people who wre just over the speed limit for a minute or less.

An accident on Burke Centre Parkway? Really? Sounds serious. Why don't I reach out to our delegate while you call the police, circulate a petition, alert our supervisor, lobby the school system, mau-mau VDOT and filibuster the Board of Trustees? Why don't we mobilize the National Guard while we're at it? If we all hold hands and work together, I bet we can get the General Assembly to let Burke Centre pay for traffic-calming measures that will reduce both the parkway speed limit and the Conservancy's reserve fund to zero! Awesome two-fer.

Interesting that one of the main questioners. Mr. Thompson, doesn't live in Burke Centre and doesn't have children who go to Terra Centre.

Neighbor, you are welcome to join the task force, come to the meetings, voice your facts. But your opinions are so sarcastic that it's hard to consider you as anything but a frustrated complainer. Be a part of a solution. It sounds as though to you think averaging 18 mph over the speed limit on a road THAT CURRENTLY HAS CROSSWALKS is reasonable. Hmm.... did you or your wife get one (or two) of those 402 tickets? Come to the meetings. Show your face. Debate it like an adult.

According to FCPD, 22 serious accidents occurred on Burke Centre Parkway in 5 months. People suffered injuries. Property damage occurred. When FCPD issued tickets to speeding drivers, the average unsafe speed cited? 57.9 mph. The police issued citations from Burke Lake Rd to Rt 123 (not all in the Lake Barton area). Here is a list of constructive proposals offered at the meeting (which Neighbor, apparently, did not attend):

1. Establish a school zone in front of Terra Centre ("TC") with Wink-o-Matics.

2. Fix the Crosswalk at Marshall Ponds/Schoolhouse Woods/BCP so that it is more easily seen.

3. Install a pedestrian-activated light at the above crosswalk; consider making it a full light.

4. Assign a crossing guard to the aforementioned crosswalk.

5. If no light is installed at said crosswalk, some argue for a light to be installed in front of TC.

6. Permanently reduce the speed limit on BCP to 25-35 mph.

7. Narrow lanes; widen medians on BCP.

8. Get the sidewalk completed from Pond Spice to TC.

9. Install the TC sign.

10. FCPD enfcmt.

11. Federal Grant Safe Routes to School.

12. Pedestrian bridge.

13. More parking spaces at TC.

I came away from the meeting with a sense that our officials are going to work with the community to solve our problem. Absent from the discussion so far is knowing what is the design speed of the parkway? When traffic moves at speeds well above the posted limit, that is a good indicator the road is designed for higher speeds, but is artificially slowed down with speed limits. The design needs to be changed.

I also heard one of our police officers express the idea that 14 accidents over the several month period of monitoring was "normal." Again, our roads are designed for a target level of safety. We can design safer roads for all.

Commuters are concerned about "slower" routes. But traffic throughput calculations are anything but "common sense." We need VDOT to calculate what traffic throughput at slower speeds could be to help win over neighbors concerned with our creating more obstacles to already frustrating commute while we make our community safer and more livable for all modes of transportation.

Good comments, Alan. I am drafting a FOIA request to VDOT, FCPD and FCPS requesting prior engineering and safety studies. My contact info. is in the directory if you have more ideas.

Neighbor, you're just funny to me now. I'll consider your comments as complete comedy and I'm convinced more than ever that you're a speeder and probably childless; or perhaps living in your parents' basement. You have a good command of the language; perhaps you should write for Jon Stewart instead of stalking this page with your hyperbolic paranoia. What's even funnier (not) is that there was only one woman on that panel the other night; the audience was a pretty fair mix 50/50 of both genders.

Neighbor, please don't worry about suggesting ideas. Do you think it so unlikely that a bored stay-at-home, overly-educated, highly-credentialed mom or two hadn't already thought of FOIA requests, petitions and lawsuits? Men and women within this community (and I think it's safe to posit that none of us are card-carrying members of the Nazi party) have worked these issues for years and you're more than welcome to show your actual name and face and join the constructive discussion.
Alan, thanks for the link.
Mike T. isn't on this discussion but in his defense he proffered excellent ideas at the meeting and yeah, stumped the bureaucrats.

Aha! Godwin's Law has been fulfilled. If you are unfamiliar, go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

And by this law and its first corollary, Neighbor, due to his comment at 10:51 AM today, officially loses this debate.

To this issue, maybe we can think 'outside the box' a bit. What about a pedestrian bridge over BCP? This is not mutually exclusive to any of the aforementioned ideas (school zone, better sidewalks, FCPS enforecement, etc.), but it might help to ensure the safety of kids trying to get to or from school.
Thoughts?

Why has the idea of a (lighted) tunnel under BCP not been mentioned? Surely it would be cheaper than a bridge, with fewer aesthetic issues. Just a thought.

Jason: love Godwin's Law and its first corollary. As far as the pedestrian bridge, it would solve the problem of pedestrian safety but the cost would (most likely) be prohibitive. Aesthetically, it would bring a concrete eyesore to the community. To be honest, I favored the idea at first as well.

We have discussed the idea of a tunnel going under BCP in the past and it certainly is worth revisiting; however, cost and safety (even if the tunnel is lit, teenagers and women would be at risk and/or engage in risky activities in a tunnel) considerations enter into the equation.

Neighbor, the way that you are using inflammatory language may not amount to argumentum ad hominem but it is abusive, boorish and inappropriate.

Neighbor, As someone who is deployed from his family for a year fighting to keep Al Quaeda and the Taliban (or any other terrorist group) from doing anything else to this country, I don't really appreciate you comparing people that are trying to do some good for the community to these groups. If you do not have anything that can help the situation, then keep your snide remarks to yourself. When I am home, I have to cross Burke Centre Parkway when getting dropped off and the people on that road do not even watch for pedestrians. While BCP is a great cut through to other major roads, that does not mean it is an interstate and you can 50-60 miles an hour. There is a posted speed limit, try following it. Enjoy the freedoms you have, because I can guarantee you that people in this part of the world would give up their lives to have just a sampling. Me and the other sailors, soldiers and Airmen are over here protecting those freedoms, unfortunately there are some back home that don't give a damn and it is all about them. Like I said before, leave 5 minutes earlier and don't stop at Starbuck, Dunkin Doughnuts or wherever you get your special latte and you will not have to speed and endanger the lives of children and pedestrians on BCP. To the group who is trying to help, keep up the good work. This will all pay off in the end and a solution will be found. I want to say thanks for trying to improve the safety in Burke Centre.

This discussion has inspired me to start a "Zinger of the Day" contest on the Burke Patch Facebook page (www.facebook.com/BurkePatch) - I heartily encourage all of y'all to go over and vote on your favorite "Zinger" with the like buttons. Many have already put in their opinions!

As a retired Army veteran, I remain deeply grateful for the sacrifices of servicemembers like Tom. Thank you Tom.

I have been researching to understand how Burke Centre became divided by a four lane highway. Here is a video made by recovering traffic engineers that helps to explain the "world view" that brought us our current design. These engineers have renounced the "principles" that brought us our highway and are now strong proponents of "complete streets," engineering to improve communities. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-6X1-SLOXM

Thank you Tom, and thank you Alan (and your families) for your service to our country and on our behalf.
I am optimistic and determined that we can help influence those in power to make Burke Centre Parkway safer for our families. Mr. Moore from VDOT seemed like a good man. He even blushed when questioned about VDOT's earlier opposition to the Bill that would allow the citizens of Burke Centre to establish a school zone on BCP in front of, you know, a school. I like a man who blushes. It usually means he possesses a conscience.
The widening of BCP altered the very nature of Burke Centre for the worse. We can fix this.

Neighbor, It would be a cruel twist of fate if you were caught up in an accident on BCP by a car speeding 18+ mph over the limit. If driving, the damage done to your (parent's?) car would be significant; the potential injuries to your body could be serious; and the adjustment and correction to your myopic perception would be swift. If on a bicycle, your body would likely be found in the trees. If on foot, you wouldn't likely survive. Because you are a human being (or a typing ape) with a right to your opinions, I hope you stay safe.

I am not speaking to Neighbor because he/she/it refuses to stop hiding anonymously and continues to spew destructive remarks and ignorant opinions.
On a different note, research of the VA Code reveals that FCPD's threat to cite anyone for crossing the street at the Giant intersection lacks substance or statutory support. The relevant language appears at VA Code Section 46.2-923: § 46.2-923. How and where pedestrians to cross highways.
"When crossing highways, pedestrians shall not carelessly or maliciously interfere with the orderly passage of vehicles. They shall cross, wherever possible, only at intersections or marked crosswalks. Where intersections contain no marked crosswalks, pedestrians shall not be guilty of negligence as a matter of law for crossing at any such intersection or between intersections when crossing by the most direct route.
The governing body of any town or city or the governing body of a county authorized by law to regulate traffic may by ordinance permit pedestrians to cross an intersection diagonally when all traffic entering the intersection has been halted by lights, other traffic control devices, or by a law-enforcement officer."
(Code 1950, § 46-243; 1958, c. 541, § 46.1-230; 1966, c. 706; 1976, c. 322; 1981, c. 163; 1989, c. 727.)
I'm not advocating that anyone cross here (I don't). It is safest to park on Marshall Ponds and follow the trail. Just providing facts.

A representative of the Fairfax County Department of Transportation said that there was little that could be done physically to slow down cars on Burke Centre Parkway.

“Unfortunately Burke Centre Parkway is one of those roads where we can’t apply any traffic calming measures because it’s a minor arterial road,” William Harrell, a Senior Transportation Planner with FCDOT, said.

Don't accept this BS. There are plenty of options on minor arterials. Roundabouts, chicanes, narrower travel lanes, speed cameras, making the sight-lines shorter through sculpture or landscaping. Streets are for people..not just cars.

Calming traffic on a major road isn't as hard as these planners aren't making it out to be, and the "false idea of safety" argument against a crosswalk should be rejected out of hand, since flashing lights (either overhead or embedded in the roadway) and clear markings serve the basic function of alerting drivers to potential safety hazards. If you do it right, people could cut 10-20 mph off their speed.

When I was in elementary school in Tucson, we had a crosswalk in front of the school that had overhead flashing lights that were activated by a button so people could cross more safely. A dedicated signal that turns red is another possibility.

The people who said traffic calming measures were impossible are right to some extent. For traffic to move at 40 mph, you can't have the stuff that you would put on a residential street. But a flashing light doesn't get in the way, and a crosswalk doesn't do any harm. Drivers are still supposed to stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk at that speed. I know of at least one crosswalk in Fairfax County in a 40 mph zone, and that's on Rolling Road in Springfield near the high school there.

Planners and drivers need to get rid of the "driver first" mentality that puts people's lives in danger and ignores the needs of communities around major roads. Cars are fine, but it's a problem if they are preventing people from getting a simple crosswalk where they need one. People live in communities, not cars.

Good comments Omar. I agree completely.

I know this thread is a year old .... I'm just getting around to reading it. My main comment is that NEIGHBOR lacks any guts to ID himself and instead hide behind the anonymity of the Internet. I guess we'll find out who he is when he is doing time for running someone down on BCP.

Darn right I don't want you to know who I am. Sounds like you can't wait to see me behind bars. How about responding to the points I raised instead of attacking the person who raised them? The Burke Centre Parkway traffic-calming agitators act like a brigade of Syrian shock troops whose most fervent wish is to root out the dissenters so they can be silenced.

The posted speed limit is 40 on BCP even though the road is engineered for probably 50 in some spots. The 408 tickets that were issued were for speeds averaging 57.9 mph along the entirety of BCP -- from Lee Chapel to FxCoPkwy.

"Traffic calming agitator" is a clever oxymoron, but the fact remains that people speed entirely too much and at a dangerous rate. If people want to obey the law, then we wouldn't need "traffic calming agitators" who supposedly act like Syrian shock troops.

You have vivid metaphors, "Neighbor" I'll give you that; but your rhetoric is even only more ineffective due to your hiding. No matter... people will continue to speed and tickets will be written. Unless something is done.